Christian Fiction Discussions Around The Web

OK, I'm only one day late ;).

Sometimes the discussion going on other places is too good to pass up.

Mike Duran, as usual, has some great, thought-provoking posts this week. He posted at Novel Rocket about Christian fiction marketing toward men. That started some chatter, so he continued his thoughts on his own blog Decompose. He wonders if the CBA is doing a good enough job reaching men with Christian fiction, both male authors and the readers. Is it a responsibility of religious publishers to reach out to men more effectively? Those are the questions asked at the two posts, and as a male reader and writer, they are very interesting to me. Check them out if you can.

Another post was by Jeffrey Overstreet, author of the Auralia's Colors series. He brings up the idea of artistry versus message in fiction. I've agreed and disagreed with Overstreet on various aspects of this debate in the past. He is eloquent in his post and the comments below are worth the time to read. My friend Becky Miller makes some good counter-points there.

Both are good fodder for some deep thinking.

The Definition Of Christian Fiction

Now this is interesting...

There was a very interesting confluence of circumstances in the world of Christian or CBA fiction this week. First of all, I am a member of the American Christian Fiction Writers (ACFW) and I subscribe to the main email loop for discussion of issues in Christian fiction. I haven't been following it for a while, but this week I happened to open up my digest and there was an interesting (if not new) discussion.

How "Christian" should our stories be?

Larry Timm started the discussion with this question on his blog and he threw it out to the ACFW loop as well. Both the comments on Larry's post and the answers on the email loop were enlightening.

The answers varied, for sure. Some thought that Christian novels should explicitly glorify Jesus in some way. Being a sweet romance without profanity or sex wasn't enough. Some answers thought there should be some lesson or purpose in the story. Others wondered if their stories could be considered Christian if there wasn't a path to redemption/salvation shown clearly in the text. There was concern that the message may be watered down in the current climate to appeal to wider audiences.

Is it enough if the worldview Christian, if the characters are Christians and live, make mistakes, and learn from their sin, without preaching it to the reader? Is there a place for good, clean fun, or do they all have to change our lives somehow? I liked what Randy Ingermanson said, something to the effect that we're called to be salt, but people like different levels of saltiness in their soup.

The consensus seemed to move toward different stories for different folks. Authors may be called to tell stories with the themes veiled or more subtle, while others may want to specifically deal with a theological/moral topic. People were respectful. It is an old debate in the CBA world, and it will continue to recycle as long as we continue to write.

What made the timing interesting to me was the introduction  this week of...The Hinterlands.

Marcher Lord Press has developed a significant niche in the CBA world as the go-to place for Christian speculative fiction. Other publishers will produce some science fiction or fantasy, but no one sells out for it like MLP.

Now they are ready to push the boundaries - figuratively and literally, it seems.

Hinterlands is the new MLP imprint for mature fantasy and sci-fi. It is designed to reach out to people who love secular fantasy/sci-fi but wouldn't pick up a typical Christian novel. The first book is called A Throne Of Bones by Vox Day, and it is specifically targeted to be for fans of epic fantasy such as George R. R. Martin and his Game Of Thrones series.

According to an article in Christian Retailing, Hinterlands will feature books with content that does not always mesh with traditional CBA fare.

“Just as some Christians have the ability to watch R-rated movies without stumbling and others do not, so it will be with A Throne of Bones and other titles to come in the Hinterlands line,” [Jeff Gerke] said.

MLP's owner and publisher Jeff Gerke went on to say,

“It’s not going to be erotica, and the characters aren’t going to be dropping f-bombs left and right,” he said. “But these books will still have more mature content than other Christian novels. Having these books in their own imprint will allow our fans to find the Marcher Lord Press books they’re interested in and avoid the ones they would rather avoid.”

“Hinterlands books may contain vulgarity, profanity, nudity and/or sexual content, but never for gratuitous purposes. Hinterlands allows us to pursue crossover publishing that will put the word of the gospel before people who would never otherwise pick up a Christian novel. It also allows us to examine mature themes in a realistic manner that some Christians will appreciate. We know that not everyone will want to read these books, so we have set them apart into the Hinterlands imprint.”

So we have two separate streams in the CBA realm that may be flowing in parallel, or depending on your viewpoint, moving far away from each other.

One side sees Christian fiction as standing apart from the world. Generally this group sees Christian fiction through the lens of Philippians 4:8, wants to see a clear story of redemption or salvation, and hews to an evangelical Christian framework.

Hinterlands is new ground that is trying to engage the world in realistic ways. This imprint could be the publishing home for stories from the Bible like Judges, Genesis 34 or 38, or be a realistic portrayal of life of King David. It sounds like they will take great care to avoid gratiutous use of profanity, violence, or sexual situations, but they won't avoid it wholesale if the story seems to require it.

I am very interested in seeing how this plays out. Can MLP succeed in this bold initiative with Hinterlands? Is there room for Christians producing this type of literature? At least, is there room in the CBA world? With the new world of the internet and social media, perhaps the old forms of marketing and distribution aren't needed anymore, and a niche like Hinterlands can succeed and reach people.

Can we reach people with gritty stories? This question has been debated in the CBA for a while now. I guess we'll be finding out with Hinterlands.
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What do you think? I've got my opinions for a later post, but I want to hear from authors and readers of Christian fiction and speculative fiction. What is Christian fiction, and is there room for Hinterlands-type books in it?
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Thoughts on Christian Horror

Last week I was part of a blog tour that featured Darkness Follows by Mike Dellosso, a good read that falls in the category of "supernatural suspense" in the Christian fiction (CBA) industry. I made the argument on Wednesday that it really is a horror book.

Sorry for giving that little detail away Mike. ;)

Anyhoo.

I asked why books like this are marketed with what basically amounts to a euphemism. From the comments last week, both Mike and Nicole hit it on the head.

Sales.

The label of "horror" is as loaded as the label of "Christian fiction." As Nicole said, it conjures images of Stephen King and the horror movie trinity of Freddy/Michael/Jason (I take umbrage at the last one). I've only read one King novel, and didn't enjoy the things it did to my imagination. I understand he has books like The Stand that read differently from Pet Sematary. But his reputation is so strong, it is hard for him to write something else that will break through to readers other than his fan base.

Conversely, it is hard for many readers to get away from the stereotype of slasher flicks/books to open up a thoughtful book like Darkness Follows that explores the love of a father and a daughter. DF has a body count, but it is not gory or gratuitous. People die to further the plot, not to shock. Mike in his comment laments the reality of the situation, because I think (as he does) some readers who would enjoy a book like DF won't find it because it isn't labeled as horror, although he would lose more if it was marketed as horror.

It is a catch-22 inherent in the CBA industry. It is more conservative than the ABA market it parallels. For those of us who read widely or want to write for the CBA, we just have to keep this in mind. The CBA market is changing, but slowly and not without growing pains and waxing/waning.

I don't know if we'll end up with a genre of Christian horror in the CBA. Perhaps the euphemism of "supernatural suspense" is here to stay. BTW, I like a category of supernatural suspense, but I think it is too broad to do horror justice, especially since it fits books like This Present Darkness and the Left Behind series.

Thoughts? Should the CBA aspire to having a horror category someday?
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CSFF Tour - Darkness Follows Day 3

Hey! You, web surfer! Yeah you.

C'mere for a sec.

See, I'm part of the Christian Sci-fi/Fantasy Tour, and we just talked about a cool and creepy book called Darkness Follows by Mike Dellosso. I talked about it Monday with an overview, and Tuesday with a review.

I don't really want to talk about it today.

Not directly, at least.

Like I said, I'm in a book tour for Christian speculative fiction. There's cool people here that like interesting books. There's an interesting aspect of this month's tour I wanted to investigate.

The book was brought to us for a speculative angle - the protaganist in modern times finds pages from a Civil War officer's journal, in his own handwriting. The book is considered in the CBA realm as "supernatural suspense."

The thing is, the book is really a horror book.

It's not horrible. Hor-ror. It is scary and spooky [insert Addam's Family theme song here]. It has a purpose in its scare factor, but it definitely has the chills factor.

It seems the CBA industry is scared of labeling books as "horror." I don't mind that a speculative fiction tour is featuring this book, it is pretty good, and I'm glad I got to read it. I think it serves a certain type of reader, and does it without some of the hopelessness found in regular horror fiction.

I don't have all the insights in this quirk of the CBA. For a better authority, I'll refer you to Mike Duran on his posts concerning "Can Horror Fiction Be 'Redemptive'" (part 1, 2, 3) and a quick discussion on covers speaking about horror here, as well as Mike Dellosso's own words in this post.

Seemed like a good time to take on this idea of the label of "horror" vs. "supernatural suspense" to a group that enjoys speculative fiction. I've read CBA books ranging from a ghost story (Robin Parrish's Nightmare, labeled as "paranormal suspense") to vampires (Eric Wilson's Jerusalem Undead series) that would fit into a horror genre in a normal bookstore, but don't get promoted that way in the CBA.

Why is that?

I have my thoughts, but what say you, the well-read and clever folks of the CSFF Tour? Let me know what you think, and I'll answer back in a few days.
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Uh, to get back on track, here's where you can find all of the other fine posts on Darkness Follows from my tourmates.

Thanks for stopping by.

Decent and Edgy?

Hello again. I've been trying to work more on my novel in progress, and have been dealing with a little blogger's block. I've had a few thoughts, but haven't known how to get them out. Time to get back on the horse!

So is it possible to have edgy AND decent fiction?

This has been a run-around topic for CBA fiction for a while. Christian fiction has been evolving over the last several years, perhaps not as fast as some would like, as there continues to be a debate about "edgy" Christian fiction. In fact, the term has become so loaded it is hard to define. For this post consider "edgy" as portraying real life without any filter on it (CBA is known for no cussing and no intimate scenes, not even between spouses).

By the way, I was partially inspired by Mike Duran's blog deCOMPOSE because he offers a lot of thought-provoking content, usually about the state of Christian fiction. A recent post asks, "Am I responsible for what my characters say?" with the question being, "If my character says something mean, racist, sinful, etc., am I responsible or is the character responsible." He also had a well-noticed post about "Christian fiction and the new edgy". That post noted that some people's edgy are other people's obscene.

How can obscene be decent?

Perhaps "decent" is a loaded word too, considered a Puritan standard that isn't realistic in our day and age. Maybe I'm looking at the word wrong, or using the wrong term. I'm thinking of decent as in the motivation one is using when writing something that may be edgy.

Much of our current pop culture fare comes with a shock value intended to gain notice. The edginess is just to catch people's attention. Britney Spears continued a trend from Madonna, then Katy Perry picked up the baton with songs like "I Kissed a Girl," and this was quickly followed by Lady Gaga and her wild antics. The motivation on doing something is, quite frankly, only to gain some kind of attention in our oversaturated world.

All media forms are subject to this, from movies, comics, books, TV...the list goes on. The motivation is caught between catching attention and/or flaunting old standards.

Is it possible to write something challenging, edgy, without leaving behind decency? I'd better use an example. I picture a story involving a rough-edged detective and a prostitute trapped in her circumstances that doesn't pull punches showing the rawness of their lives. The point of the story is not to wallow in dirt, but to show the contrast of redemption against such bleak context. The motivation is good. The details are not used in a gratuitous manner, but to paint an accurate picture. The author keeps a standard of decency in their heart, writing things to serve the story rather than to shock, even if it means some cursing, a closer look into the prostitute's life, or the violence on the streets.

Maybe I'm reaching with this. I don't expect stardard CBA fare to embrace this of course. But is it possible to be honest with where the story needs to go, show just the details that are needed to establish credibility without wallowing in it, and keep a pure heart? I think so. I really believe a lot of what is done in pop culture is for the purpose of vulgarity alone, without adding value to the final product other than saying, "Look at me! I am worse than the last guy!"

I'm not even the guy that would want to read all of this. But as Mike has said before, showing someone violating God's standards can be a powerful tool, even if it is uncomfortable reading about it.

Am I making sense? Am I out there on this one? Hey, your thoughts on this would be most appreciated!
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Too Clean?

As the debate rages in Christian fiction about "edgy" fiction, a Mormon author making the following pledge:

Mark the date and save this text. I will never use foul, crude, disgusting language or create explicit images of sex or graphic violence.

This is from Jason F. Wright, an author I am unfamiliar with, but I saw this article linked on Facebook and was curious. There is a subculture of LDS fiction just as there is for the evangelical world in the CBA. I've not read any of these books, but seeing them at the library, I can tell there are similarities (such as making knock-offs of popular general fiction such as DaVinci Code).

He asks the question if anyone has put down a book because it is too clean. Since the source of this article is "Mormon Times," I would expect the answer to be "no". I admire how he knows his place as an author and his determination to stick to his beliefs.

Still, I think people have put down books for being "too clean" if the book was also too unrealistic, uninteresting, or a combination. Can a good book be clean without the issues he labels above? Certainly. His point about older literature succeeding without gory details of sex, violence, or language is a poignant one considering our culture that demands "realism" above all.

Since I've participated in the discussion of edgy Christian fiction, the statement caught my eye. I still believe there is an argument for fiction that glorifies God and speaks to the culture while being grittier than your standard CBA fare, it is good to remember that each author has their own calling, and needs to stay true to that. It would not ring true to have a gritty Amish novel by certain authors, just as Ted Dekker writing a pure, sugary sweet prairie romance would be WAY out of character ;)
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"Sensual" Christian Fiction?

File this post under "unfinished business."

On September 15th I reviewed Immanuel's Veins by Ted Dekker for the CFBA tour. I made the
comment, "Is this the book that changes what Christian fiction can be about?" I left off a cliffhanger saying I'd discuss it "tomorrow."

Hope you haven't been hanging too long!

Still, I don't want to let this idea go. Immanuel's Veins is a book that deserves some analysis.

The book is a potent mix of visual and emotional imagery. As I said in my review, Dekker spends time developing his two main characters, Toma and Lucine, and otherwise has placeholder characters that allow him to develop the tension and force the plot on its blistering pace. As Toma falls for Lucine, and she is torn between him and a deceptively dashing royal, there is a lot of description of the desire that develops.

Dekker describes it as probably "the most Christian book I've ever written." It certainly is laced with the love Jesus has for His bride, as well as a deep connection to the Song of Solomon (he dedicates the book to King Solomon) and other Biblical imagery such as the two sisters in Ezekiel who end up whoring after other countries and their false gods. To build such a premise, this book couldn't really be tame.

Dekker writes freely of passion and desire in building up the drama. The story wouldn't have worked without it. The sensuality of the followers of van Valerik is contrasted with the nobility of Toma and Lucine. Still, both of them are tempted by the opportunity, and Lucine is seduced by Duke Vlad van Valerik. The horror of what she encounters after she gives herself to him echoes the mistake people make when they go after the schemes of Satan, only to realize they've been snared.

The book is sensual. The story demands it. As I read it, sometimes it was slightly arousing. It is unlike any other Christian (CBA) novel I've read. The book was actually not accepted by Ted's Christian publisher in Holland due to its sensuality (can you say irony?).

I think only someone with Dekker's clout in the CBA industry could get away with writing this book. Violence has long been accepted in Christian fiction, but any kind of sexuality is resisted. Now, I don't think we should be seeing "Christian erotica" anytime soon, and that is not the purpose of Immanuel's Veins. Again I'll say the story required such language.

So this book could be a book that changes Christian fiction. I don't think we'll be seeing smut in the CBA, but if there is a proper place for sexual/sensual language that serves the story and the message, then Immanuel's Veins sets a precedent. It will be resisted by some for sure - on the Amazon page the book is overwhelmingly praised, but there are several 1 star reviews that decry the language and imagery. I see their point, but I feel those reviewers are missing the point of the book by focusing on the trees and missing the forest.

Will this open up Christian fiction to the idea that "the end justifies the means?" I don't think that is the case here. But Dekker really is not forging new ground, not when prophets and wise men in the Bible used such imagery first. Time will tell if it pushes CBA fiction, or if it is an isolated case.

What say you?
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CBA Following CCM?

And in other news, ABC hates CBS and NBC.

Aside from abbreviation proliferation, I've been thinking about the continuing (continuous?) debate in CBA fiction circles about how to expand the "boundaries" of Christian fiction. On one side there are people defending the industry, pointing to its growth in the publishing world over the last several years, and the greater variety of genres/books being published. Another camp feels stifled by the unspoken limits of what is acceptable, and wonders how CBA/Christian fiction can reach unbelievers in its current status.

(Realize that the "industry" is a disparate group of authors, editors, agents, publishers, marketers, and booksellers, each with their own agenda. People speak of the CBA as some monolithic organization, which it certainly is not.)

Doncha dig the font
 and hairdos?

I've considered another industry that has had similar growing pains. CCM stands for Contemporary Christian Music, and it is another nebulous designation to speak of a variety of interests in music.

CCM started in the late 60's/early 70's with the revolution of sex, drugs, and rock n' roll. As the hippie movement took full swing, there was a counter-revolution of young people getting saved, but retaining the new tastes in music and culture of their peers (without the sex and drugs part). As they naturally wrote music in the rock and folk genres, the initial music was often picked up by general market labels. Artists like Keith Green and Randy Stonehill were pioneers in these areas. Soon there was enough interest that labels were started to give further outlet to these musicians.

Since the people involved wanted to glorify the Lord as well as sell music, they became Christian publishers. This had the effect of sucking most of the blatantly Christian artists into a niche area, creating a music "ghetto" for lack of a better term. There were those like Bob Dylan with his Christian phase albums in the general market, but most artists producing specific Christian music (religious lyrics/subjects) were isolated from the general market airwaves. Christian music was on the outside looking in with the advent of MTV.

Slowly Christian artists tested the waters of "crossing over" to the general market, even as the Christian music ghetto flourished. Stryper was a famous Christian glam-metal band that got MTV airplay but was sold in (many, not all) Christian bookstores. Amy Grant was the first big crossover with her song "Baby Baby," a syrupy-yet-catchy pop song that wasn't specifically religious.

A debate raged at the time (early 90's) whether these artists were "selling out" by writing lyrics that were ambiguous enough to be sung as a love song to the Lord or to a girlfriend. Michael W. Smith had a couple of hits on top 40 radio with such songs. In the mid-90's Jars of Clay burst onto the scene when an early single, "Flood", made waves in both markets. U2 remained a conundrum as they had spiritually insightful lyrics, but refused to be labeled a "Christian" band. Those darn Irish rockers wouldn't let themselves be squeezed into the little CCM box!

Slowly, things have changed in the last 10 years in Christian music. Movies and TV shows started pulling songs from various Christian artists to play during the program. Switchfoot became a band that garnered a lot of respect in the general market, but were still considered "one of ours." Relient k participated in the Vans Warped Tour with other general artists. P.O.D. broke through to both markets. Songs by The Afters, The Fray, and others got noticed. Skillet's "Hero" was the major song for Sunday Night Football last year. The band Paramore is not considered a Christian band per se, but they have songs such as "Hallelujah" on their records.

Most of this has happened organically, without a lot of organization that I can tell. Perhaps there was behind the scenes maneuvering, but suddenly it was okay for bands to talk about spirituality without being black-listed to the CCM ghetto, and the CCM folks didn't fuss about "selling out" nearly as much. This isn't perfect: the band MuteMath sued their Christian distributor for being called a "Christian band", as they felt it hurt their image since "Christian music" wasn't considered the same quality as general market music. You don't find songs blatantly speaking of Jesus on mainstream airwaves.

Could this be the model that CBA fiction follows? There are parallels - Ted Dekker is successfully publishing in both ABA/general market as well as Christian fiction. The CCM flow right now seems to leave room for the overtly Christian tunes, such as Chris Tomlin's praise music along with the bands such as Superchick that have had some crossover appeal.

I can see this happening. I don't know much about marketing and how books get out to the Barnes and Noble of the world, but it would be nice if relationships could be built with publishers and booksellers, getting more CBA books into areas of greater visibility. Hopefully the Ted Dekkers of the world will help pave a way for the Eric Wilsons and Robin Parrishs of the world for greater exposure.
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Does "Nightmare" Belong in the CBA?

On Friday I reviewed Nightmare by Robin Parrish. As a paranormal suspense novel, close to a horror novel, this book has received some interesting reviews. None of the reviews I've seen have said that it is a bad story. They all acknowledge Robin as a good suspense author.

However, a few reviews I've seen (on Christianbook.com, a couple during the CFBA tour) turn negative when they talk about the spiritual aspects of the book. Obviously Nightmare takes on a topic that may seem to go against some people's theology. To this I say, make sure you read the book all the way through, and read it carefully. It is a work of speculative fiction - as in "speculate." He is not saying a definitive position on the topic, he came up with a suspenseful story idea and worked on it. If you expect a treatise on spiritual warfare you'll be disappointed.

Spoilers Ahead!

Robin never denies or totally affirms the paranormal in the book. He writes an author note at the back of the book saying he believes closer to a Christian character in the book, and warns people that he does not believe dabbling in the paranormal is a good idea at all. The plot hinges around a machine that is able to remove a person's soul from their body. There is a large McGuffin plot device that pops up at this time to explain this. The people are able to be reconnected soul to body at the end.

End Spoilers

I've had some bad experience with things like Dungeons and Dragons in the past. I believe that Christians shouldn't dabble in every possible form of evil or paranormal. This is a whole different ball game to me. I don't believe he is trying to glamorize anything, but to use a plot point to tell a story. It may not be everyone's cup of tea, but Robin makes sure at the end to remind people it is just a story to make people think - not to sermonize on ghosts or glorify any kind of evil. At least in my opinion.

So is there a place in CBA fiction for a book like Nightmare? The answer is: it depends who you ask!

Nightmare is going to trip up some people who think that CBA fiction means uplifting, theologically correct books that are squeaky clean in the orthodoxy department. Thus the negative reviews. There is another segment of readers who are more open to fiction that has a little more ambiguity, without things fully nailed to a theological premise. People who read science fiction or fantasy should have no problem in general. I would like to see a CBA industry that has room for authors like Robin Parrish or Eric Wilson. However, in my opinion there is enough resistance to writers like them at this time that they may need to pursue other options in publishing.

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Opinions on Christian Fiction

In the past few weeks there has been a healthy discussion about the state of Christian fiction. I talked about whether some CBA authors should seek publication for the general market via the ABA. That was nothing. Novelist Eric Wilson really sparked the discussion with his post "Is It Time for Christian Fiction to Die?" Then I collected several thoughtful posts together in a post last week (I encourage you to at least check this one out - not for my words, but the numerous links).

The conversation has been continuing at other places. I want to highlight a few. If anyone knows of other blogs/authors/etc talking about this, I'd love to read what they have to say.

My friend Nicole Petrino-Salter has written several novels, but is self-published, so she doesn't necessarily have an "insider's" view of CBA fiction. However, she is a prolific reader and blogger, and has cultivated relationships with numerous figures within CBA fiction. She reviews a plethora of novels and has an educated opinion about the whole matter.


She has posted her thoughts on her blog. Then, she has had three days (so far, more coming) of opinions from various individuals within the industry, authors and editors alike. Some of those commenting requested anonymity, as they still have to go to work in the morning! She asked them to make up to 5 recommendations for Christian/CBA fiction.

Day 1
Day 2
Day 3 (the whole post is by Jeff Gerke of Marcher Lord Press - very intriguing).

Another author posting about this is Robin Parrish, whose novel Nightmare started my own musing about the boundaries of Christian fiction. He wrote his opinion early this week (which I enjoyed), but I actually felt a comment on the article by Dana Timmerman was one of the best opinions I have read on this issue. He speaks of working hard on the business side of writing, to make sure the quality is as high as it can be, and to be broken before the Lord in approaching this ideal.


Finally, Robin in another post references this article wondering why there isn't more science fiction in the CBA (almost another subject, but relevant to this discussion). Of course I am interested in this idea as a member of the Christian Sci-fi/Fantasy blog tour.

The general consensus on the posts from Nicole is that the insiders would like to see a little more risk taking by the powers that be in CBA publishing. They would like readers to be willing to take chances on things a little more. There is acknowledgment that CBA fiction has grown a lot, but quality needs to be a continuing priority. There is mention of mentoring new talent, and grooming new authors to step in when the Karen Kingsburys and Ted Dekkers are done writing.

It seems to me that a consensus is out there, even if it isn't readily apparent. The people who want grittier fiction  recognize a place for "safe" fiction to read, but ask for a place that allows a Christian imprint to push books toward the mainstream more. I miss the old imprint West Bow, which used to be a label under Thomas Nelson. West Bow was producing the earlier Ted Dekker books, and had a reputation of books that pushed the boundaries.

Ultimately, CBA is a business, and it is run by supply and demand. People who ask for certain types of books (speculative fiction, horror, "realistic") need to support the books that do come out with their dollars. I could've gotten Nightmare for free through a review group, but I chose instead to buy it, as I was familiar with Robin's work and wanted to support him.

I'll keep an eye on the conversation as best I can and post updates as they come around. I hope the discussion continues in a productive manner, and I certainly encourage the conversation here!
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Interesting Times in Christian Fiction

Let me say up front that I am merely an observer of the CBA market for Christian fiction. I review CBA books for a couple of blog tours. I have interacted with various authors at various stages in their careers. I have been quoted for an endorsement - a highlight!

Still, there are some interesting rumblings in the CBA world.

Last week I wondered out loud if some authors shouldn't consider ABA publishing (basically secular publishers or the general market) for their works, as what they write chafes some readers of CBA fiction.

More importantly by far, novelist Eric Wilson wrote a post entitled, "Is It Time for Christian Fiction to Die?" This has already generated some light, as in the discussion on his Facebook page, and some heat as well. Mike Duran talked about this article at Novel Journey on Monday (see the comments for a little of the heat). Mike references Eric's article again for another post discussing a related issue, "Should Profit Be the Bottom Line for Christian Fiction?" where he asks about the conflict of "ministry" vs. "business."

Of course, there was more discussion out there. My friend Becky Miller initially had a little different take (okay, she calls it a rant). Then she referenced another thoughtful post by novelist Mike Dellosso, who talks about an author following their calling wherever it leads, and trying to avoid some things that can bring frustration (like tracking Amazon sales numbers). What Mike talks about is fleshed out well in Jeff Gerke's Tips for Writers (see #93), where he stresses understanding whether a writer is called to write for the Christian/CBA market for encouragement/challenge/entertainment, or whether they have a missionary vision to reach non-believers (who usually won't be found in a Christian bookstore buying CBA books).

My friend Nicole at Into the Fire will be posting some responses from CBA industry insiders starting next week, and she has already posted some starting thoughts here and here (the last one is about the heartache caused by our culture's use/misuse of sex - very poignant).

Finally, after inundating you with links, Tim George (a frequent reviewer of CBA fiction) chimes in with thoughts similar to Mike, but are worth checking out on their own.

Can I sum up what I've seen so far?

• Eric seems to be crying out for the CBA "industry" (actually a conglomeration of publishers, agents, booksellers, etc and not one specific agency) to be more open for those called to reach the culture for Jesus, rather than singing to the choir.
•  He sees a place for "clean" or "safe" fiction for entertainment/encouragement, but doesn't want it to the exclusion of fiction that reaches out and perhaps crosses some boundaries.
• He feels there has been a "narrowing" of what is acceptable in CBA fiction lately.
•  There is a running debate behind the scenes on whether CBA fiction should be more "edgy." The definition of edgy is nebulous. Some mean it as detailing real-to-life scenarios. Others ask for CBA fiction to be less restrictive of certain taboos such as non-erotic descriptions of sex or some cussing.
•  CBA is a business responding to supply and demand, and the main buyers of the product tend to be middle-aged women who prefer romances, historicals, and/or Amish fiction. The market for suspense, horror, sci-fi, fantasy, etc is a lot smaller.
• Also, the market has been affected by the recession and the new trends of ebooks.
•  Responses to Eric's post range from hearty amens, people who accuse him of not being a "team player" or taking a "parting shot" as he leaves the industry, to others who think CBA is broadening, just not as fast as some may want.
•  Some like the dialogue and think of the sparks created as "iron sharpening iron," while others suggest we've been down this road before.
• Finally, people are wondering if there isn't room for both "edgy" and "safe" in the CBA. (If we could define what is edgy...)

Like I said above, I'm an observer, albiet an interested party as I am slowly working on a book that, for now, I feel should go into the CBA realm, but it may be a hard sell due to its content (the characters confront sex slavery in Thailand). I will be watching this discussion intrigued. Nicole's posts for next week I will certainly not miss.

This is only a small part of the discussion. I'd be interested in other thoughtful posts if anyone knows of any out there. I am excited for dialogue, but we shouldn't forget strategic prayer that those in leadership/influence for CBA publishing as well as the authors know God's calling for them, and pursue it to the best of their abilities, and that He will open doors for it to be used. I am all for being strategic in trying to positively affect culture, but I also realize where my Source comes from. Blessings, all!
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Boundaries in Christian Fiction

Yes! Another blog discussion on the boundaries of Christian/CBA fiction!

Seriously, this has been dragged around the virtual block more than a few times. If you're late to the party and want to catch up, I hinted about this subject, then talked some more about it, based off the new Robin Parrish novel Nightmare, and intertwined this subject with a review of a new, gritty police procedural Back on Murder by J. Mark Bertrand.

Nightmare is a book best categorized by the term "paranormal suspense," while Back on Murder is a very real-to-life crime novel. How do these two relate with each other and pushing the boundaries of Christian fiction?

The CBA market (fiction carried by Christian book stores for the uninitiated) is a growth market for the publishing industry. In the 1990's it was mostly historical fiction, romance, or historical romance, with the Left Behind series thrown in for good measure. Oh, and this guy Frank Peretti had some spiritual warfare novels that were a hit.

In the 2000's CBA has grown to hold pretty much any genre of fiction: suspense, science fiction, fantasy, chick-lit, horror, romance, contemporary, historical. For some reason Amish stories are a particular favorite, but we won't go there today. Still, there are questions about what gets published under the (nebulous) banner of CBA fiction. Nightmare got great reviews from a recent blog tour for its writing and suspense, but a few people questioned the subject of ghosts and how they were handled in the book (I'm currently reading Nightmare and will go in detail on it later).

How far will CBA fiction go? I think it will go where the market allows, being a business. I don't expect it to cross into subjects like erotica or new age topics that don't measure up with the Bible. Slowly publishers seem okay with the "grey areas", but this market still skews mostly to the Evangelical Christian reader.

Does Nightmare push the boundaries? Perhaps. Should it? Maybe. Maybe it should be published in the "secular" book market (the ABA is the umbrella term for publishers who don't produce books with mainly Christian book stores in mind. Basically most of the publishing world...). I think Robin's book could go either way. Maybe its place is in a larger field to play in. Then again, there is a much bigger market out there, and perhaps it would not find an audience with so many choices available (not for poor quality, but sheer numbers of other books).

How about Back on Murder as far as pushing boundaries? My friend Nicole didn't think it did. Maybe not in a controversial way. I feel like it does in the fact that I haven't read a book like it in CBA fiction (then again, straight crime/police procedural novels aren't my first choice). I think it could stand in ABA fiction as it is - especially compared to the garbage that James Patterson writes.

Some books are more or less written for the CBA market. There is a valid place for this market, but it has struggled with self-imposed rules and (mostly undeserved) image problems of being inferior quality. I see certain writers with their feet firmly planted in the CBA market. Others like Tosca Lee, Gina Holmes, Mark Bertrand, and Tim Downs have written stories that could crossover, in my opinion, quite easily to the ABA market, due to the quality and way that faith is handled. Why do we not see these more prominently in Barnes & Noble, Borders, etc?

CBA fiction is growing in a good way, and I'm happy to see it. I just wonder if some books still aren't better off in a different pond...

What say you?
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CFBA Tour - Back on Murder

I've talked in the last couple of posts about Robin Parrish and his latest novel, Nightmare, a paranormal suspense that has mostly glowing reviews with a couple of people giving a polite cough and wondering if it belongs in "Christian fiction."

I wonder if a similar situation will occur with the latest CFBA book tour feature: Back on Murder by J. Mark Bertrand.

Back on Murder is the first in a series about Houston homicide detective Roland March. The book starts off on a note that doesn't bode well for keeping a series going: "I'm on the way out."

March has been a star detective in the past, but events personal and private have sapped him and pushed him to the periphery of his department. Now he handles the garbage cases no one wants, like the bait-and-switch "Cars for Criminals" program and investigating suicides within the department.

When the pretty blonde daughter of a prominent Houston televangelist goes missing, it captures all of the media attention. March ends up helping with a case flying under the radar, a gangbanger murder that seems like a typical hit. This last gasp gives him one last chance, and when he notices signs of something more at the crime scene, he is given a lifeline.

As he chases down leads others disregard, he starts to suspect a connection in these unrelated cases. March maneuvers the politics of the police department, weathers a hurricane along with the turmoil in his personal life, and tries to piece together the disparate clues to see if he can get "back on murder."

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J. Mark Bertrand is an author I interacted with on prior writing sites. He is a deep thinker and appreciates quality writing and a artistic use of language. He constantly challenged our group on what it means to write Christian fiction. Therefore I was very intrigued to read his first solo book (he co-authored a romantic suspense with Deeann Gist, Beguiled).

I linked Nightmare and Back on Murder because they represent new frontiers in Christian/CBA fiction, not because they are very similar. They both take risks that may make some readers a little uncomfortable.

Mark talks in a guest post at Forensics and Faith how he took risks with his book. Some of it is technique: he tells the book in a first person/present tense point of view. We see the events as Roland March experiences them, without a past tense introspection or other viewpoints that lets us see what is occurring elsewhere. The other risk is that there is a lot of ambiguity with the book. March is not a Christian, but he interacts with people from the megachurch as they search for the missing daughter. Bertrand doesn't shy away from subtle critique through March's viewpoint, but he doesn't preach through it.

So what about the story? It is a bit of a slow burn. It builds up carefully at first. There was enough to whet my appetite, but at times the action isn't moving along as fast as a popcorn-special-effects cop flick. There is a little perseverance require to get the payoff as different threads slowly weave together. Mark does a good job of keeping some cards hidden for a long time, like the personal trauma that affects Roland in his marriage and work. The first third of the book suffers a little drag at times, but again, there is a rich and exciting ride that follows. The ending keeps the reader guessing, and there is a wrap-up on most points while leaving some questions hang for another book.

The characters are quite deep. Roland March has a voice that seems very authentic for a jaded detective. Other characters are fleshed out convincingly, and there are shades of grey all around. It isn't a book where the bad guys twist mustaches or the good guys wear white hats. There's a lot to plumb out of these flawed people.

How does it push the boundaries of the CBA? Well, there is no clear-cut declaration of faith (which isn't AS edgy anymore.) I'm not a big reader of detective mysteries, but it gives a realistic view of life as a detective with the grittiness intact. Faith interacts with the story, but it isn't always pretty. Still, Mark does a great job looking at some modern Evangelical flaws without cynacism.

I think the biggest push is that the book isn't neat and tidy. Hard things happen, the miracles aren't always apparent, but hope is not lost. I think it has a distinctive voice that is unlike most CBA books.

This is where Nightmare and Back on Murder come back together. In reading reviews on Amazon (in general) I get the feeling a lot of CBA readers like uplifting tales that show life that is a little too polished. Everything gets a happy ending. There are certainly places for those type of books, but if you like a book that examines real life (BoM) or examines the supernatural what-ifs (Nightmare), then the good news is that CBA continues to evolve.

To sum up: Back on Murder asks a little investment, and in return you get a distinctive book that entertains and offers up scenarios that are thoughtful, without the author telling you what to think. I really enjoyed the book, and I will be looking forward to book two, Pattern of Wounds. As I said, this isn't my typical genre, but Mark Bertand has earned my interest - and you would do well to check it out! 

 If you want to check out the first chapter of Back On Murder, go HERE.

Finally, I have a few more thoughts on Christian/CBA fiction that I'll hopefully address tomorrow. I'd love to hear anyone's thoughts on BoM or books in general.

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A Nightmare for CBA Fiction?

OK, not quite tomorrow. How about in a week?

In my last post I talked a little about Robin Parrish (Dominion Trilogy, Offworld) and his latest novel Nightmare. It was a featured book of the CFBA this week, and my copy has just arrived from Amazon. I haven't started it, but I've heard not to read it too late at night.

It is being billed as a paranormal suspense. It deals with a girl whose parents were some of the country's foremost ghost hunters. After a friend of hers disappears, she has to help the fiance find out what happened.

I've followed Robin for a long time, as he used to run a significant culture website called "Infuze" that examined the intersection of art and faith. I know that he loves the Lord. I also know that he has a particular taste in speculative fiction and is trying to explore some bigger ideas with his work. He was a big fan of Lost and I believe he uses that influence in his writing (never really watched it myself, so I can't say for sure).

The point of this is, there were some reviews of Nightmare that questioned its place in the CBA realm of Christian fiction. (For the uninitiated, CBA is a term used to designate fiction written primarily for an evangelical Christian audience, usually through a store like Lifeway or Family Christian Bookstores. CBA is more precise here than saying "Christian fiction").

It has been argued frequently and widely through the blogosphere on what constitutes Christian (CBA) fiction. Since I've been paying attention since around 2005, the tentpoles have increased significantly in just that time. The market is dominated by historical romance and Amish fiction, but includes quality suspense, chick lit, mystery, legal thrillers, and is starting to include more and more speculative fiction (such as science fiction and fantasy).

Having not read Nightmare yet, I'm a little limited in the claims I can make off of it right now. Still, is there room for CBA fiction to grow? Speculative fiction that encompasses more wide-ranging topics is very popular in mainstream culture (I'm quite interested in the upcoming moving Inception).

The CBA could move into other literary genres as well. My next post will talk about a new crime thriller, Back on Murder, that may also move boundaries some.  Check back!
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Vampires in Christian Fiction

If you missed the first post, there were very good comments related to vampires and such in Christian fiction. One of the commenters was Sue Dent, who wrote the mentioned Never Ceese novel.

Evangeline noted my objective take on it - thanks. I was trying to present it evenly to see what people came up with before I threw in my own 2 cents. There are a few different facets to this discussion, so I don't think it is a simple "yes it is eviiiiiil" or "no, there's no problem".

Sue brought out the importance of defining what is meant by Christian fiction. I was referring to the notion of the CBA/ECPA. As Sue noted, this is an umbrella group that is responsible for a certain type of "Christian fiction", a type that usually gets ownership of that moniker. It is evangelical and conservative in outlook, and there are certain unwritten rules with these type of rules: no cussing, no sex (unless in marriage, and not on page), and as Sue mentioned, certain literary images like vampires, werewolves, etc., would not be generally welcome. (Oddly enough, you can have mass murderers, super assassins, and a high body count, but that's another post...) "CBA" is almost a brand, but religious or Christian books are not limited to it. Very prominent examples of non-CBA Christian books would be the award-winning Gilead and Peace Like a River, and Sue's novels. So you likely wouldn't find a vampire novel in a Christian bookstore due to the CBA, as Sue mentions.

Evangeline talked about vampires as good objects for symbolism, metaphors, or allegory. This could potentially be a worthy use of the undead in CBA fiction. It would take a compelling author with a bold statement of faith to pull it off, likely.

Carole had interesting, thoughtful insights about the possibility of salvation for vampires, based on whether they were "fallen" men or demons. She also notes that vampires often act as a "bad boy" for the good girl to redeem, which might be a little prejudiced toward the "hot male vampires" LOL.

What are my thoughts? Jumbled as usual. I'll list some out.

1. Regarding the Twilight series specifically, I have finished Twilight and am almost done with New Moon. I share Evangline's concern about the sensualness of the series - even though Meyers keeps the clothes on and the physical touching limited to arms and faces, she still has a gift for romance and sexual tension. I wouldn't want a young daughter of mine to read them. I also don't like that Bella's desire for immortality comes from wanting to become a vampire like Edward, over God's ways.

2. We discussed the Twilight series in a home group/Bible study. A few people automatically didn't like the idea of some many kids reading about vampires and werewolves, considering them evil and demonic, and wondering if Christians should be opening themselves up to such influences. I remember reading Dracula for high school, and my pastor's wife cautioned me to be prayed up for it, as she read it and felt darkness from it. Considering the Twilight series, I told the group I couldn't judge it without reading it for myself.

3. I have experienced evil influence from entertainment before. I used to play Dungeons and Dragons with friends around 9th-10th grade. We didn't go for real heavy use of demons (mostly orcs and the like, Lord of the Ring-ish) and we always made our characters religion "Christian" on the player sheet. Still, it got to us. We had a sleep over one night where we got pretty freaked out with some weird stuff going on. I was the first to leave the group, feeling it was a bad situation. After this these good friends turned on me and I had some bad experiences with them. I wouldn't be against any role-playing game, but I would not want my kids to play D&D specifically.

4. I have argued before for freedom for a Christian artist to produce the art they feel they should make. I wouldn't condemn a Christian for using elements that I felt uncomfortable with, but I would use discernment whether it would be something for me to partake in or not.

5. Vampires and other mythological, typically evil creatures should be used carefully, but I think there is room for them to be used in a conscientious manner. I can't help thinking of C.S. Lewis using witches, giants, the Greek god Bacchus, and other pagan-type supernatural events in his stories. A modern master of using the supernatural for a truly Godly end is Stephen Lawhead in many of his books.

6. Are vampires in essence a perversion of the gospel with their life coming from stealing the blood of people, as opposed to the life-giving power of the blood of Christ? This just came to me while writing this post - don't know if I have the answer.

I think that's more than enough to chew on for now. I'll let y'all sink your teeth into it (grooooan).

Dragons to Vampires

Two weeks ago the Christian Sci-fi and Fantasy blog tour featured DragonLight by Donita K. Paul. The question was raised if dragons were an acceptable subject matter for Christian fiction authors. I had some good response, and everyone seemed to agree that dragons could be used as good or evil depending on context and not contradicting something clear in the Bible.

My question of the week plays off of this topic and the hot book for the weekend - the fourth book in the Twilight series by Stephenie Meyer, Breaking Dawn. For those who have been in a cave recently, the Twilight series is the hottest thing in youth fiction that has crossed boundaries into all ages. It features a love story between teens Bella and Edward. Bella is a clumsy, ordinary girl, while Edward is a typical hero - fantastically beautiful, pleasantly scented, and he's a vampire. Oh, that last part may not be so typical...

The question: Can vampires or related creatures (werewolves, etc.) be a viable component of Christian fiction? Specifically, can vampires be considered good? Would it be acceptable to have "Christian" vampires?

Is there a conflict with vampires generally considered from an evil origin? If they are undead, how can they fit in a worldview that entails heaven and hell?

I didn't realize until searching Amazon for this post how many vampire novels are out there. I know of one considered Christian: Never Ceese, by Sue Dent, who had werewolf and vampire leads. I didn't read it when it was featured for a blog tour, I just posted the promotional info. Apparently there is a sequel (Forever Richard) coming out soon.

What say you? I just started reading Twilight, so I am far from knowing what Meyer does with the characters, and I haven't really thought about this before. Can it be done? Should it be done? Fantasy has the advantage of being able to re-write rules when world-building, but are there rules for Christian fiction that shouldn't be crossed, other than heresy and explicit depictions of sin?

(BTW, my wife happened to be at our local Barnes and Noble on Friday night when the release party for Breaking Dawn was going on. Wow. There were a ton of folks, with many girls and young women decked out in prom outfits or Gothic/black clothing, along with the scattered classic vampire. For sleepy Idaho Falls, there was a lot of interest. Quite the stir caused by a stay-at-home mom in Arizona!)

New Resource for Christian Fiction

Welcome to a new week!

There's a great way to start the new week off right as well, if you're a fan of Christian fiction. I've been a member of the Christian Fiction Blog Alliance for 2 years now, and it has grown tremendously. There are books reviewed twice a week (not always here, of course), and there is a large community that talks about the latest in Christian fiction.

Now there's been a new expansion that is quite remarkable. The leaders of CFBA have started the Christian Fiction Online Magazine. I knew this was coming for a little while, but I didn't appreciate how much they had managed to put into this work. It is very impressive. From a cover story interview with Robert Liparulo to columns of fiction craft by Brandilyn Collins and funny stuff from Randy Ingermanson and Kristin Billerbeck, it is packed with content. You can browse in an alliterative delight, with categories of "Best," "Buzz," "Bizarre," and "Biz" awaiting you.

So if you enjoy reading good fiction or are interested in writing yourself and want an online resource, make sure to check out CFOM. The editors have put in a lot of work and it is well worth your time.

Violence in Christian Fiction - Day 6

What to say in the end? I've raised different facets that play into the discussion of how much violence in Christian fiction and is there a line to cross? Honestly there have been several good comments that hit on where I was planning on going with this.

1. I still believe in the idea of the Christian artist having the freedom to write what they feel like they need to in order to make the story what it is supposed to be. That doesn't mean freedom from critical reviewing, because any time someone puts out a creative effort it is open to critique.

2. It depends on the genre and audience the author is writing for. I wouldn't expect graphic violence in a prairie romance, (unless written by Chris Mikesell ;-) ), and it would probably turn off the intended readers. If I pick up a Robert Liparulo novel, I am definitely anticipating it, and that is my choice as a reader and consumer if I make that choice.

Some genres like war or suspense pretty much require some violence, mortal danger, etc. It wouldn't be true to the story if it wasn't included. If it makes sense with the overall story, then it probably is needed. Yet a necessary scene of violence can become gratuitous if overblown. That may well be a point of taste that is impossible to quantitatively determine, but falls under the old adage, "I'll know it when I see it."

3. I am reminded of the quote from Jurassic Park regarding cloning: "Just because we can doesn't mean we should." I will state continuously that Christian artists should creative in freedom and integrity. Just because we can have greater freedom in publishing to write violent scenes doesn't necessarily mean it should be done. I like what Merrie said in a comment, about the toolbox of a writer and using different techniques at the right time. Using all sorts of dramatic settings or plot twists can enhance the story. She mentioned Hitchcock showing just enough to scare without being voyeuristic about things. Sometimes the subtlety is a better way of portraying a scene than hitting the reader with a gross-out hammer.

Sure, tastes have changed since his day, and audiences are supposedly more "sophisticated". Maybe our culture is just dulled from being able to appreciate subtlety and the build-up of suspense over showing the violence.

4. Just tonight I was watching a show on the life and martyrdom of William Tyndale. Here was a godly man who lived in constant fear and danger of being discovered, yet still managing to translate the Bible into English and write books that would change history. Finally he was betrayed by a friend, imprisoned for 500 days, and when brought for execution had the privilege to be garroted so that he was dead when he was burned at the stake. I'm reminded again how our faith is not the sanitized, dressed up in "Sunday go meeting" clothes faith we live in America. Our predecessors suffered terribly for our rights and abilities to serve Jesus, and there are millions today who also are persecuted to the point of death for His name. To ignore this dramatic history and its legacy, to whitewash the blood of the martyrs, it would be a horrible injustice to the strength of our witness.

5. Overall this was a question without any definitive answer. People in the comments hit that right away. I don't have answers that will satisfy. We won't have labels or ratings on books. Reviews may or may not expose issues for sensitive readers. I'll defend an Christian artist's freedom to do something even if I think it may have crossed a line, and I may bring it up as a reviewer. Some books won't be for everyone.

Ultimately as Christians it comes down to us being sensitive to the Holy Spirit and His guidance. If we write something that is integral to a great story, yet we realize that it will grieve the Spirit, do we serve the muse or the Lord? (Reminds me of the ending to Stranger Than Fiction) As I try to write, I want to increase my skill and what I can portray with words, but it has to come down to how it works out in my relationship with God. If being true to that means writing books that leave the squeamish behind, so be it. If it means sacrificing a little artistry to being a disciple, then make it so.

Violence in Christian Fiction - Day 5

Philippians 4:7-9
And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.
Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things. Whatever you have learned or received or heard from me, or seen in me—put it into practice. And the God of peace will be with you.

I've been heading each of these posts with examples from the Bible of violence. In winding down, I thought that this completely different passage was appropriate, but it needs explanation.

I've seen this beautiful Scripture used as a bludgeon on anything that didn't meet one person's view of "whatever is lovely, pure," or etc. I don't think it is meant to be used like that, and it is definitely not my intention in this argument to do that either. I even debated whether to use this verse because of past misuse of it, but I felt that it still had an important consideration.

I've honestly meditated about this, and I've decided you can't use "lovely" or "pure" to the exception of "admirable," "noble," and "right." Some may argue that an author shouldn't use any violence or portray a dangerous situation without blood and gore. I don't agree. The contrast from showing true nobility overcoming true evil is a powerful image in fiction.

This leads to context. Sometimes, even most times will call for an example of the trial the protagonist. A hero escaping mortal danger is inherently more dramatic than our hero escaping from a group of grey-haired grandmas at a potluck accosting him for having a tattoo. It is a potent tool to let us see, hear, feel, smell, or taste the danger.

So the use of violence can clearly fall under the guidance of Phil 4:8. I thought today would be the end, but this topic fleshed out more than I intended, so I'll finish up (likely...) tomorrow.

Violence in Christian Fiction - Day 4

Psalm 137: 8-9

O Daughter of Babylon, doomed to destruction,
happy is he who repays you
for what you have done to us-
he who seizes your infants
and dashes them against the rocks.

Yesterday I talked about the Bible and violence within Scripture. The main points were that yes, the Bible has violence in it; it is not very graphic; however it is not written as entertainment - the literary purpose is different.

What about the influence of other media? You can use the terms "the world," "secular," or "non-Christian" for this question. What kind of influence does shows like CSI, authors like Stephen King, and movies from Silence of the Lambs to Saw have on authors of Christian fiction.

That question will have to be addressed to specific authors, I'm afraid. TL Hines, author of Waking Lazarus and The Dead Whisper On, admits to being a fan of Stephen King. While Hines writes some intense fiction, even though he looks to King as an influence, his writing does not approach the horror master in terms of graphicness.

The influence of secular media also plays a role in the reader. I've read one Stephen King book, and still wish I hadn't. I recall that he was very good with suspense, but the subject matter was not something I want to partake in anymore. I've read one James Patterson book. Besides my feeling that his writing is shallow and low quality, his cavalier language and treatment of violence left a nasty taste that still regurgitates anytime I see one of his titles.

Someone who is more comfortable reading King or Patterson, or who routinely watches CSI type shows may be more accepting of levels of violence. Perhaps I'm not the best person to address this subject. As others have mentioned in the comments, it does depend on the comfort level of the individual reader. Some people shouldn't read certain types of books.

Yet the discussion here is simply, is there a point of too much in Christian fiction, and if so, what is that point? I think this can be asked by anyone. I also think I've covered the most important variables that relate to this topic. Tune in tomorrow for the exciting conclusion!